It's Never Too Late: How One Woman Turned a Bucket List Safari into a Soul-Centered Business at 60

At age 60, while most of her peers were planning for retirement, Karen Cleveland found herself face-to-face with wild elephants, building a thriving safari business, and embarking on the most authentic chapter of her life. What began as a simple bucket list trip to Kenya unexpectedly transformed into NuNu's Kenyan Safaris, a soul-centered business that combines animal communication, spiritual connection, and conservation into transformative experiences.

EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS 

[00:02:24] The unexpected beginnings of Karen's safari journey 

[00:04:54] Karen's non-linear path and series of stepping stones

 [00:08:02] Karen's spiritual journey and search for deeper connection 

[00:11:20] Navigating the end of her second marriage 

[00:19:10] Breaking limiting beliefs about homeownership as a woman 

[00:25:42] The magical first safari and meeting her future husband 

[00:30:27] What makes a NuNu's Safari unique: morning routines and energy exercises 

[00:36:38] Using animal communication to enhance safari experiences 

[00:39:09] Upcoming safari opportunities for 2025 

[00:42:44] Words of wisdom for women feeling stuck in midlife

KEY TAKEAWAYS

• Life's extraordinary chapters can begin at any age - even at 60
• Following curiosity can lead to unexpected transformative opportunities
• Breaking free from limiting beliefs is essential for personal growth
• Deep spiritual connection can guide us through difficult transitions
• Creating quiet space allows us to hear our inner wisdom
• Trust divine timing rather than forcing change before you're ready

KEY THEMES

• Midlife reinvention and discovering purpose
• Spiritual growth as a pathway to personal transformation
• Breaking cultural conditioning about women's capabilities
• Turning personal passion into meaningful business
• Creating authentic, soulful travel experiences
• Conservation and respectful connection with animals and nature

QUOTABLE MOMENTS 

"I don't think I would have created the things I've created if I hadn't done a lot of other things beforehand." - Karen Cleveland

"You'll find out very quickly whether you're in an expansive relationship where you becoming all that you can be is welcome." - Eimear Zone

 "It might be hard, it might feel hard, but it's possible." - Karen Cleveland

GUEST CONTACT: Karen Cleveland

NuNu's Kenyan Safaris website: https://nunuskenyansafaris.com/

Karen's personal website: https://revkarencleveland.com/

Karen’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/revkarencleveland/

CONNECT WITH EIMEAR

📱 Instagram: @eimearzonecoach

💻 Website: eimearzone.com 📧

Email: hello@eimearzone.com

Subscribe to Girl, Choose Yourself on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

© 2025 Eimear Zone Coaching. All rights reserved.

Transcript

Eimear Zone: Is going on safari on your bucket list? It's definitely on mine. And today's guest is Karen Cleveland, who at the age of 60 is proving that life's most extraordinary chapters can begin at any moment. After decades in the corporate world and working many side hustles along the way, a single decision to follow her curiosity led her to create what is today NuNu’s Kenyan safaris. And she is absolutely redefining what a transformative African adventure can be. Karen's story is such a powerful reminder that when we choose ourselves, unexpected magic happens. 
Let's jump in. Karen, welcome to the podcast. Thank you for joining me.

Karen Cleveland: You're welcome. And thank you for inviting me.
I'm excited to talk today.

Eimear Zone: Yeah, I'm, really excited. And We're going to start off, I have to start with what I'm so excited about because you founded a wonderful company this year called NuNu’s Safaris, which you're just giving birth to it. We've talked a lot about the vision in the conversations that we have regularly.
And it's, I'm just so excited for you to be on the brink of your 60th birthday and to have created such an amazing thing.I know that many people will listen to this, maybe they're 30, maybe they're 40 and they think where I am is where I stay. We're so not about that! We're about this constant reinvention and creating ourselves and choosing ourselves.
So tell me a little bit about the seed for this grand vision. Where can you trace that back to the beginnings of this journey?

Karen Cleveland: So the safari journey specifically, happened completely randomly but has fully developed in the last, you know, seven years going places I didn't know it was going to go.
So the first time I took a safari, I thought, you know, this is great. I'll be going home, showing people my pictures and moving on to the next bucket list thing. And it turns out that all the pieces of me, you know, all these different things I had studied or become, started fitting in with different aspects of Safari and I started bringing friends on Safari, you know, just when I went, because as it turns out, I met a man the first time I was on safari and we got married and so I was going to Kenya a lot. So I was taking my friends on safari. And so it's just, it's just been a whole tie-in of my animal background, my spiritual background, and it's still evolving. I mean, it's crazy.
The new things that come up, every day or every week - a new aspect of the safari that I can bring to the world. It's really fun. And, it's actually the first thing that I've been a hundred percent excited about, like as a business or as my purpose or what I'm doing full time. You know, I've done a lot of things, but I've never been a hundred percent behind any of it before.
So this is, it's a new experience and it's a lot of fun for me.

Eimear Zone: I love how you describe it. I love how you describe it and just your excitement. And I think a number of things that you mentioned there. You know, it's a bucket list item for lots of people to go on safari. And I definitely described it as that to you when we first started talking about this, when it was in this early embryonic stage of all these different threads of, you know, gifts that you have and work that you'd done and, and research and learning that had brought you to this place.

So, it's also kind of interesting what you said about it's the first time you're a hundred percent sort of really excited about something, but I don't know. What do you think, Karen? A lot of people have this idea that you get the one big idea. They're always looking for the one big idea. And here we're talking about it.

It's not that linear. I don't believe it's that linear. I don't think I would have created the things I've created if I hadn't done a lot of other things beforehand. There's these stepping stones. And you spoke a little bit about it. You know, the threads and, and I know in your younger years, you would have described yourself very much as like a people pleaser, you wanted to keep other people happy.

You followed this path of getting the safe job and then it began to be, you know, the beginning, of things like, okay, I need to earn a little bit more money on this side, or maybe I'll, can you take us, tell us a little bit about the journey. Doing what you thought you should do and then diverging a little bit from that path and how small that began with some of the, some of the little side hustles that you had in your younger years.

Karen Cleveland: Yeah, absolutely. And it's funny because my mom was always the get a job, you know, have a paycheck a hundred percent of the time. My dad was an entrepreneur. So that's probably why she was so insistent and my dad was always starting new businesses. So I had my good job at 19, I started in the pharmaceutical industry, but, I never, ever liked it.

I first started, my husband and I started, with Amway and various, you know, home party systems throughout the years, like selling children's books and selling foods in the home, you know, home parties, and there was always something. And part of it started because. Uh, while my husband and I were in the Amway business, they're like, you always have to have a home business for the tax benefits.

And so, you know, I kind of got used to having certain tax benefits from having a home business. So I just kind of kept it up, even though none of them, of course, when I started everything, it was like, Oh, this, I could do this. You know, I could probably do this for a long time. Not really excited, but I think I could do this.

And, you know, it's like, it really wasn't my kind of thing, any of it. So I did, and I eventually went to my own kind of products, shall I say? So like animal communication or spiritual mentoring, that kind of thing. But always looking for

 
Eimear Zone: And also looking, yeah, the thing that you are responsible for yourself.

It's that part of like, what can I do beyond the safe job and getting the paycheck and what more can there be beyond that? And it's interesting to see how simple those steps can be because you talk about Amway and then you talk about. And there'll be lots of people who are listening who will go, yeah, safaris, yeah, I get that, and I understand Amway and the pharmaceuticals and sorry, can we go back on the animal communication piece? 

Cause that's your spiritual journey. You began to turn to that to become, I guess many of us just get to a period of our lives when we begin to start asking those questions. What was that like for you?
When was that moment when? You began to look at that spiritual path more and then began to develop your gifts in that direction.

Karen Cleveland: Yeah, that was a whole, a whole journey, uh, just starting that. And I, I guess, so way back when my kids were young and they're in their thirties, so long time ago. I wanted some kind of community for them.

And I know I'm going kind of far back, but I'll catch up in a minute. So I, we went to different churches. I was raised Catholic and went to Catholic school. I didn't want to go to a Catholic church. I was finding some, I was searching for some kind of community for my kids. And that we could go to and belong to.

And eventually when my kids were older, I finally, my brother actually sent me to this one community. I felt at home as soon as I walked in. So at the same time that even though my kids were older and out of the house, by the time I found this and I started doing classes there, I also was kind of getting the feeling at home that there was more to my relationship with the animals than I realized. 

My daughter stopped me one day because I was always telling her what the dog wanted and she was like, Mom, how do you know what the dog wants? And it's like well, how do you not know what the dog wants, you know? And I was like listening to radio psychics, radio, pet psychics, and yelling at them through the radio going, that's not the right answer. And I don't know why I thought I knew any better than they did.

But so I was, they both kind of like synergistic, I guess, as I studied animal communication, I looked into it, I took classes and then I practiced and I was also teaching or taking spiritual classes and practicing, you know, different spiritual practices. So they both kind of grew together and during that time when they both started kind of blossoming, I was in a marriage that was really containing me and not letting me grow.

It was like, I would go to my class, I would feel so expanded and I'd come home and I literally felt like I was put back in a box. It's like, this is not working for me. I don't know what to do about it. It was my second marriage. It's like, but something's wrong here. So, yeah.

Eimear Zone: It's interesting when we take that, when we begin to take a different path ourselves, we begin that process of inquiry and following our curiosity, you know, spiritual matters are, or more generally on personal development matters.

It really will show you the weak points in your own partnership, your own relationship. You'll find out very quickly whether you're in an expansive relationship where you becoming all that you can be is welcome, or whether you are loved for the version of you that the other person is most comfortable with you being.

Karen Cleveland: Yeah, absolutely. So true. So true. And I had a really hard time., I was feeling like a failure in wanting to end the marriage. And I didn't know how on earth I was ever going to do that. How I was ever going to tell my mother or my family. And I actually thought, well, maybe I can just wait till my mom dies, but it didn't work out that way.

Eimear Zone: That's, that's going to resonate with a lot of people, the idea that you're in a relationship, you can't leave the relationship because you're going to disappoint these other people beyond the relationship who have a belief that you don't leave a marriage. You stay, fix it. It's, it's almost embarrassing for them.

I had a very good friend who, left her marriage and I think her mother said something, you can't come back here dragging your failed marriage behind you. Oh my God. And I was like, wow. Yeah. I said, well, you can come over and stay with me. 

It is difficult. So how did you - when you're thinking about that and you're saying, well, you didn't wait until your mother passed away.

Karen Cleveland: I didn't. 

Eimear Zone: What happened for you to make the choice and the decision to step away from that? Because I know when we talked about this, you had some pretty rigid beliefs that were holding that kept you very constrained. They weren't very expansive beliefs about you in the world. As a woman, you needed a man for certain things, and you couldn't really count on yourself to be able to create that safety, that security in the world without being in a relationship with a man.

Can you tell me what those beliefs were and then how you moved beyond them?

Karen Cleveland: Yeah. I had actually identified one of the beliefs in a money class that I had taken that I, you know, primarily got from my mother that men were lazy and women had to do all the work and make all the money. And, but we still, we still needed them in order to, to have the, what's the word? to have the benefits, in order to fit in.

And there's a word that is at a loss right now, but we needed the partnership, right? So as a woman, I couldn't do it, and moving forward just a little bit after I did finally leave him, I just strongly believed I could not buy a house by myself as a woman. I strongly believed that I had to have, you know, a down payment and a perfect credit score and all these things that I had to do some work to heal.

But back when I was in my second marriage, I did a lot of reading and a lot of listening to CDs at the time, probably tapes. There were two people that said things at one point. Caroline Myss said, she literally gave me the words in her CD's self esteem that I said to my husband. And I don't remember exactly what it was, but it was something like, I have to do this for me, and I don't know what our marriage will look like after this.

You know, something, you know, not directly attacking him or anything like that. And then, um, Mike Dooley also said one time, you will do what you have to do as long as you can, and then you just won't anymore. And that meant something to me, because it's like, you'll just do it until you just can't do it, you know, so don't try to force it.

If you're not ready to leave him, then you're not quite ready yet. Eventually, it'll all work out. And as the universe had my back, I accidentally texted my husband one time, something that was intended for my son, and it was about my husband, and it was the icing on the cake that I said, yeah, that's true.

I want a divorce. So it was a little bit accidental, but it was coming. I mean, things had been in play for a long time.

Eimear Zone: Yeah, obviously we've all, we've all sent, you know, the emails and the texts to the wrong person, but that one was quite a, significant one for the time that you were in and the circumstances, and I think it speaks to what you've said.

Sometimes we try and force things time-wise and we don't trust divine timing. I think it's a difficult balance sometimes. Sometimes we're waiting for a sign or we're waiting and we're kind of tapping into our own power to say, you know, it's up to me. And so we wait far too long or we never leave situations that don't serve us.

I think maybe what's very different that you've spoken to right there in telling your story is really more about divine timing because you were invested in looking for answers yourself. In listening to the CD, the tapes and just kind of going, I know this isn't right. And I need a solution. And I think lots of people who are stuck, who are feeling stuck, aren't doing that step.

What do you think of that? Was that the thing that made it? You being able to trust the timing a little bit more, or what are your thoughts? 

Karen Cleveland: I think a little bit. I think I finally heard permission from people. But I will tell you, I had palm readings, I went to psychics, I went to, I had my, the runes read, or whatever they call that.

Eimear Zone: You did all the things, I love it. I have runes. Another time, another time. 

Karen Cleveland: I knew the answers, obviously. I knew that it was time and I was just afraid. I was just afraid. All the signs, you know, everyone came up with the same answer. Didn't matter which palm reader I went to or which psychic or which candle they told me to light while I was, you know, in my bath or whatever.

They all kind of had the same answer and I just had to learn to trust the answers that I knew were already in me. And to take the action. Yeah. Cause it is scary. I mean, I am fully aware it can be scary because you don't know what's on the other side. So, but I think all the reading, all the listening to people, I was just trying to build my self-confidence.

Eimear Zone: Yeah. And that self-trust and also something else when you're, you were saying that that belief that you had to heal, I think that's quite an unusual belief. That you inherited from your mom, that, you know, meant that you have to earn the, as a woman, you have to earn all the money and do all the work and they're there for sort of, I don't know, social acceptance, you know, so that you can normalize this partnership.

That's quite an unusual money belief that the woman has to do the earning. And I think because you were in that position, when you did have that self-trust. You were an earner. So there are many women who may be listening who brought up kids and they stepped away from that earning role. And then the decision to leave a relationship that's no longer meeting their needs, it's, you know, it's complicated by that issue, but that wasn't a complication for you.

But then you have this unusual one, although you've been earning and earning and doing side hustles since you were 19, you had managed to also accumulate, you know, take on a belief that as a woman, you couldn't own a property by yourself, or you couldn't buy a property, get a mortgage. You have to have all of this perfect credit score.

But when did you become a homeowner, Karen, in your own right?
Karen Cleveland: Yeah. So it was seven years ago that I bought my house that I finally realized, I mean, I also believed I couldn't take care of a house by myself. You know, what happens when something breaks and all the yard work and everything that comes with it, how, how did I think I was going to do that buy all the furniture, you know, everything?

So it was seven years ago and it was, so it was after I left that husband, and continued to read, to take classes, you know, my practice, my spiritual connection, and different things that. That I finally came to realize that I could buy a home that I didn't need a man to buy a home and, and all of that, there was a lot of things I believed that were just flat-out wrong.

And I, so I bought my house and it was so exciting because a lot of people don't even know, like if you were just a friend or a relative of mine, you might think I just worked hard to get all this done, right? But it took a lot of personal healing to do and the fact that I didn't have to borrow any, I didn't rely on my mom or I didn't borrow any money from anyone in the family was a big deal for me.

Because it was, it was like, Oh, I'm an adult now I can do things on my own without falling back to mom for help or asking my sister for help. 

Eimear Zone: It's a powerful position to stand and say, I can look after me fully in this domain in, you know, in acquiring these necessities and shelter and doing all of that for myself. And it's strange that we're saying it as, you know, women, women in our fifties, and we're talking about this realization. 

But it really speaks, I think, to the deep, deep conditioning that we grew up with. There was always, there always had to be a man in the picture for you to be safe and secure and to be able to have the things.

It's changing now. Definitely. It's definitely changing. But for women who are 40s, 50s, it felt like, Yeah, that was, you are never actually going to have to be doing it all by yourself all the time. Right. It was always going to be this, this person. Right. And when that kind of breaks up a bit, you find a lot of tragic stories of women who are almost left in sort of a childlike way where they don't know how to handle the money themselves.

They don't know how to do a lot of these things that we feel every woman should know about. You know, you should, you know, buy your own home, know how to run your own finances and look after yourself in the world. And it's just not so, yeah.

Karen Cleveland: Yeah. Absolutely. It's, uh, it's very empowering. I mean, it feels good to know I can take care of myself, you know, whatever happens.

Eimear Zone: Yeah. And as like, as a, as we're both mothers and as a mom, I know that I tell my kids, the boys and my daughter like, you buy your house. You buy a house quickly. You buy your property early. You always want to get to own your property and be a property owner in your own right, regardless of who you're in a relationship with.

Karen Cleveland: Mm. Mm hmm.

Eimear Zone: So. I love the story of you meeting your now wonderful husband with whom you are in business with NuNu's Safaris. There were a number of friends who were going on safari, right? And you had this idea that you'd kind of like to go. But it wasn't some well thought out sort of trajectory of, I'm making this big plan in six months.

I'm researching these safaris. You just had, there was a group of people going, tell me that story.

Karen Cleveland: That's right. So this all started when I was doing my inner work and ended up buying my house. So kind of all at the same time, this big process that I got a new job and I was making a lot more money.

So these two friends at church, actually one friend at church, she said, Oh, I'm going on safari in November. And I'm like, wait. I want to go. And we had done some volunteer work together with animals. And so she thought I would be a great person to come on the trip with her. And it was also with another woman that traveled extensively around the world.

And many, many other people asked to go on this trip. She didn't allow anyone else to come. It was just the three of us. So I didn't have to do anything. I intentionally just let her take care of it. It's like, you know what? You're the one talking to the guy. That's fine. I'm just going to show up. I've always wanted to go on safari.

I've never been able to figure it out, you know, how much money, the price she was telling me wasn't that expensive. And I was a little afraid I wouldn't get time off work because it was a new job and I would have been there less than a year, but I also didn't really care. I thought, you know what?

I don't care if they don't let me have the time off. I'm going anyway. So I just really turned everything over. I didn't know any of the names of the parks, anywhere we were going, nothing. I just showed up. I did what she said and went on safari.

Eimear Zone: I love your, the level of trust though, that that takes, and it isn't accidental that you have that level of trust.

As you say, you've built it consciously through all of the work that you've done step by step, year by year, following the threads that you felt, you know, pull me in that direction, to explore more. And that just built that so that you could have that trust in divine timing. You have that trust in, Hey, better give me the time off.

And you know, they fire me is pretty much what you're saying there. I'll get another job and I'll make lots of money and it'll all be good. But you went and you had a really great experience and you met the love of your life, who you're now married to. That was at the end of this trip, right?

Karen Cleveland: Yes. The trip we get there, it was, it was magical. Every day was more magical than the last. It was like, Oh my God, I can't even believe it. You know, tomorrow can't possibly be any better than today was. And then, you know, tomorrow would get better somehow. I say, fortunately, it was the end of the trip that I met him because I might've been focused on this whole boy thing if I had met him earlier in the trip.

So I'm glad I wasn't. I'm glad I enjoyed the animals and everything. Um, but yeah, so he randomly joined our safari. He was our guide's brother. And he was coming to learn how to guide with his brother just for the last two days of our safari. And I will tell you, speaking of trusting, trusting self, you know, having faith in something, It's not easy to have a long-distance relationship with someone in Kenya. And there were a lot of times that I wanted to just stop it, to end it. I would go into meditation or some kind of prayer.

I would hear these things, like get these messages, like you're gonna let your shit get in the way of this, or you're gonna let something stupid like that get in the way of something big. And not that I ever knew what might be coming, but it's like, okay, no, you know, why would I let something get in the way? 

Kenya has really bad cell phone infrastructure so I might not hear from him for a while or something like that. Just, you know, small things that, if they were in the same city as me, might be a big deal. There might be a reason for it. But I just kept trusting and listening and just having faith that I was doing the right thing step by step.
Eimear Zone: And now you're married to him!

Karen Cleveland: And now I'm married to him. And it is kind of crazy that we have this business because we didn't actually say we're going to start a safari business. It just came together this year, uh, by taking people on trips, him knowing how to be a guide and, and we had, I don't know, it just came up that we should buy a vehicle and if you buy a vehicle, you have to have a business.

So it's like, oh, poof. Okay, we have this business. And now, as I said earlier, so many aspects of the safari business are coming forward that it's really exciting. It is. It's. I just can't wait to see where it goes. 
Eimear Zone: I remember just for the listeners, I know Karen for several years now and, and we meet pretty much weekly in a small business group.

And so it's been so exciting to watch this journey from this little spark. And I just remembered looking at you when you'd be talking about all these things, doing the animal communication and just what you were, what you were doing on the spiritual level and your deep love of the country. And I was going, Gosh, Karen, it's just like a bucket list thing for me, to go on safari and you would just be the perfect person.

And all of this now it exists. I'm so excited. I'm going to be going on safari with you one day. I have to get these little marathons out of the way first, traveling here, there and everywhere to run those marathons, but tell the listeners a little bit about what a safari experience might be like with NuNu’s Safari.

Because I think they are really fabulous. And so paint us a picture for us.

Karen Cleveland: And I do want to also tell the listeners, yeah, that Eimear really helped me put it in focus sometimes. And to say, you know, what are you thinking, Karen? No one else does this, you know, focus, get a grip.

Anyways, so a safari experience with Nunu's and we do custom curate, you know, bespoke safari. So if you and your family, you and your friends want to go. I'm in the middle of creating something for two people right now that is going to be a fabulous trip. I wish I could go with her, but I'm busy at the time.

And of course I don't go on people's trips with them, but they sound so wonderful. She's like, Oh, and I go with you. Yeah. I mean, it would be fun, but just looking at all the lodges, all the options, everything is so exciting about it. So, we do do that. We do these private trips, but I also take people on group trips.

And it's mostly women, uh, sometimes a few husbands come on the next trip. I leave in a week, we have 15 women and two husbands coming. We don't just go out and see animals. I do morning routines, like either a prayer or meditation, some kind of sunrise service. If we're not going on a sunrise safari.

If people want to get up early, they don't have to get up early. Nothing's required, but I do energy exercises, you know, about connecting deeper with the land, with the animals, with the people, so we're not just going in and exploiting everything and just, you know, forcing our way into their world. It's about asking permission and being respectful, of course.

And then I'm also implementing something new next year. We're going to have local community, I guess ambassadors, ride with us on safari. People who have been working in the sustainability or conservation field who can come and help answer questions or just get to know the guests, the guests can ask things, and it's, it's a win-win for everyone.

It's a win for the guests because they can have a deeper experience with what it's really like to be there. We can visit their village and for the community members, the ambassadors I'm calling them, they get the experience of perhaps seeing more parks than they've seen, of making connections at the parks or at the lodges or at the various places that we go, letting their world expand a little bit and hopefully get more, you know, more experience, more opportunity out of it.

So it's a project I'm super excited about. It's a nonprofit that we will be engaging with the local NGOs as well, to support the two. So pretty excited.

Eimear Zone: That's so exciting because it feels so symbiotic. It, it's so, I know interconnectedness is a big theme in a lot of the work that you do, Karen, and it just really speaks to that.

It's very soulful and it's very respectful. And it really, I think, invites the traveler into such a deep connection with the land and with the people of the land and the animals, you know, and, and it just, I can almost feel it at a cellular level when you are describing it because it feels really unique.

And, just for the listeners, it's like, I know that Karen has mentioned some spiritual practice or some prayers, all non-denominational, right? Karen, we're looking at people's personal spiritual journeys as their personal spiritual journeys and you're looking to provide an opening for a deeper connection.

Karen Cleveland: Exactly. Yeah, there, there is no denomination. I actually have several denominations coming on this trip with me. I'm part of an interfaith group here locally. And so some of those members are coming on this trip with me. And then, well, an atheist on my next trip and have signed up, which she's like, you know, it sounds, it resonates with her, even though she's an atheist, which, you know, it's all, it's all personal connection and connection with the things around us.

And I have a journal, I make journals specifically for our trips. So people can record their own things. There's, you know, questions, of course, and. I think one of the other key things is having the opportunity to discuss or debrief or, you know, come together about what happened during a day. So trying to implement those in the evening.

After dinner, I will tell you the days get pretty busy and tiresome sometimes, you know, you don't have to do everything, but yeah, you're also in Kenya and you want to do everything. So the days get kind of busy, but to be able to talk with others about what you've experienced is really important.

Eimear Zone: And so I know that you are an expert in creating those sorts of beautiful containers where there is that deep trust and feeling of safety and where people will want that energy because for many people who will be going on safari, it's a once in a lifetime thing.

They won't, they may well not be back that way again, you know, and you're about to turn 60. I'm 55. You've been several times. It's still on my list. So I'll be in my 50s when I go. That invitation to you know, that deeper connection to that reflective sort of moments with a community of travelers who are also on this journey with you and having unique experiences and providing that container.

It's like you say, people can take as much of that as they feel called to, and there isn't any sort of, there isn't a rigidity to it, right, Karen? That you're invited into these options, and also the experience is something that they’re building with you when they book a safari.
Karen Cleveland: Exactly. I mean, they can participate at the level that they are most comfortable with. I definitely encourage, you know, deeper conversations and such, but it's really up to the person. So what fits for them. And sometimes they end up doing things they didn't think they would do. And it, you know it's more meaningful for all of us when that happens and more fun.

Eimear Zone: Talk to me a little bit about what makes going on a safari with you different from the point of view of the unique gifts that you have as an animal communicator and the work that you've done there. How might I, if I'd been on another safari and then I go on a safari with you, what am I going to notice that's different there in how we're interacting with the animals?

Karen Cleveland: I think it starts with before we enter the park, connecting with the energy of the land and asking permission to come in and asking permission from the animals, you know, to interact with us, asking them to come play, inviting them into a relationship. And a lot of people do ask me and, and I think some of them do it a little bit jokingly, you know, Hey, what are they saying, Karen?

But I do think that they want to know a little more about why the animals are acting a certain way, why they're, I think they're exploring why they are feeling a certain way with the animals there. And they just don't have the words to know it. So I do talk about, you know, what's the energy system going on between us and them at the moment, you know, what's happening and encouraging people to get quiet and to feel that and not try to run away from it.

So I do in some of, some of the safaris, I specifically offer animal communication classes, like actual conversations with the animals. I don't necessarily do that on every safari. It just depends on who's going and how it's been sold. You know, what the focus of the safari is. But I'm definitely there to help with the connection and ways that people can connect deeper, with the animals.

Eimear Zone: It's wonderful. It's really where you're meeting your kind of traveler or your safari goer and what they communicate to you at the outset about what they're looking for. And when you think about journeys, I mean, this is quite some, you know, life's journey, really, when you think about pharmaceuticals to, at 19, to looking at what you've created and what, it's just in this nascent early, early kind of part of its creation, but can you tell us a little bit now about if I'm listening to this and I'm going, Oh my gosh, Safari is on my bucket list.

It has been for the longest time and I love Karen and this sounds so different and it sounds like I want to go with her. Because I know people are going to feel like that, that she's going to take care of me. It's not just some, you know, some corporate sort of thing. Right. What's on the calendar looking into 2025?

If somebody is looking for that adventure in the next 12 months, what might you be able to offer to them?

Karen Cleveland: I have several groups of safaris. They each have their own specialty. So it's hard to decide, you know, unless you're able to be gone for a month and do everything. So one of the safaris is focused on the rhinoceroses and we actually get close and upfront with rhinos including the only two remaining northern white rhinos on earth. 

I saw the last male when I went on the first trip and, and then he died a few months later. So they've been trying different ways to get these two females pregnant, but anyway, so the rhinoceroses. We'll see the wildebeest migration and there'sseveral special things about that safari that happens in September.

But then there's another one that I'm super, super excited for. If you like elephants. So Sheldrick Wildlife Trust does a lot of elephant conservation and orphan raising, and we will stay at their camp. So we will get to watch them eat breakfast, dinner, lunch, you know, if that's what we choose to do. We're going to stay there a couple of nights at the Sheldrick camp.

So have up close, personal attention with the elephants. We will see everything. We will go on game drives. We'll go out in the parks and we still see everything. We'll go to Amboseli where you see Mount Kilimanjaro. And then we're also at the baby orphanage, which is the the youngest of them all. We will have private time with them to physically interact with them as well.

So. I'm really excited about that because elephants, you know, there's a saying that they never forget and they really don't. But it's so much bigger than that about how they communicate with everything and how their presence is. And the elephants are truly like great teachers for us, you know, and yeah, I'm kind of speechless about how to describe the elephant relationships, but it's, it's going to be such an intimate experience and the size of the group is limited because of the shelter camp.
There's only so many rooms. So that's limited.

Eimear Zone: That's really exciting to think about such an intimate experience and such a curated experience. And I love how you do these safaris where there is this particular focus that will be of particular interest to people like elephants, wildebeest migration. 
But you're going to see everything else as well. You are going to go and see, what do they call it? The Big Five anyway, as well. So you're going to get all your photographs and you're going to get a very special experience on one particular area as well. 

So I want to talk to you for ages and ages, but I'm looking at our time and thinking we will probably have to pause now. But when you, if you were giving somebody some guidance, like, well, then maybe lots of women who are midlife who are, who maybe think they're midlife, 35, 40, or think they're maybe a little bit stuck with where they are and it's just too much to envisage, you know, making a change. What advice would you give to somebody who's in at that younger stage feeling maybe this is as good as it gets, or I can't even imagine making a change?

Any words of wisdom as you look back on your own journey?

Karen Cleveland: I think that the only real thing that eventually made the difference to me is to keep, I think you said it earlier, being curious and know that perhaps there is something more. And so whether it's reading, whether it's watching some kind of movies, I just remembered I saw part of a spiritual movie -
I don't remember what it was exactly. So we were watching these movies too, but anyhow, listening, you know, to MP3s.  These days there's so much information out there. 

So you do have to be discerning. And even if you just take two minutes a day to get quiet to kind of check in with yourself and how you feel about something to kind of allow that spark of inspiration to come in. Turn the TV off, turn the radio off and, and just kind of allow a little bit of something from outside to inspire you. And know that it can change, no matter what, it can change, something can change and it might take a while, you know.

It might be hard, it might feel hard, but it's possible.

Eimear Zone: Mm. Yeah. I love that, Karen. And I love that in this very busy world that we have where there's so, so many distractions and it's so easy to just get pulled into scrolling or self-soothing and thinking I can't change it. And such wonderful advice to switch that all off and give yourself some quiet space.

To let the sparks of inspiration and those little signals to say, go in this direction. Cause often it's a whisper and you need to be quite quiet to hear it. 

Karen, you're amazing. I love you. I'm going to miss you when you're off traveling. Tell people where they can find you and where they can find out about these wonderful safaris that are coming up in 2025 and get on your mailing list and everything so that they can be learning more.

Karen Cleveland: Yeah, absolutely. So Nunu's Kenyan Safaris. https://nunuskenyansafaris.com/ You can also find me at https://revkarencleveland.com/ which will direct you to Nunu's. I'm on Facebook. I'm only lightly on Instagram, but, probably easiest to find Nunu's Kenyan Safaris dot com, where you can sign up for my list.
You can check out the safaris that are available and the groups. Or you can request, for us to create something for you.

Eimear Zone: That sounds really exciting. We'll put all of that in the notes with this episode. So you'll be able to get all those links and sign up as soon as you can. And you'll be seeing all he wonderful experiences that Karen has on Safari and the people that she brings on those wonderful adventures.

Karen, thank you so much for a wonderful conversation.

Karen Cleveland: Oh, yeah. It was, it was great fun. Thank you Eimear.